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 Post subject: Chopping the Blinds?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:04 am 
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So I was playing $1/$2 NL at River Rock a couple days ago, and it seems that I was unaware of some new unwritten etiquette rule.

I've played there several times before, and have never encountered this. It's possible that this isn't "new", but just that all the other tables I've been at in the past were more loose, so the situation never came about.

Basically, if the cards are folded around to the blinds, they say "chop chop" and pretty much automatically agree to take back their blinds.

I observed this happen a couple times without me being involved.

I had been very card dead while sitting there for an hour and a half... and then I looked down to find ATo in the big blind. Everyone folded to the small blind, and I'm not even sure who suggested it, but it seemed like it was almost a-given that we just chop the blinds. Even the dealer was like "chop chop?" and the small blind was ready to throw his cards away. I'm like "No, I want to play" and the small blind goes, "Fine, all-in". I'm like, WTF. Even though I'm sure I was ahead, I wasn't going to call $100+ with ATo, so I folded. He shows Q8o.

Man, did I wish I had pocket tens or higher... would have called him in a flash and not be sorry at all if I won.

So is there some generally accepted rule that the blinds chop if it's folded around to them, or is it some strange local thing that just started happening?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:18 am 
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It's a rule at turning stone and people do it at the local place I play at. Someone, at the local club, asked me before if I am willing to chop blinds and I told them that I never chop...otherwise I would be giving away my good hands when I decide to play.


Last edited by Syphos on Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:37 am 
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It's often done where I play also although I'm not a real fan of it. I never feel guilty when I refuse to chop.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:22 pm 
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Hmm, okay... so I guess it's not something that's really new, nor is it something localized... guess I just had never seen it before in my previous sessions.

So would it actually be considered rude to not chop? Do people usually get huffy and push all-in to make a point if the other person doesn't want to chop? Or was this guy just being an ass?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:49 pm 
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i think technically, the sb folds and the bb just gives the sb back his blinds.

generally, this only happens at live casinos and at NL tables. casinos allow this because they want to speed up the game. they dont like it when the sb limps in and bb checks, both with crappy cards and then have them check it down every street. it wastes time for them because they dont collect a rake if this happens.

there's no etiquette involved. like the other person said, just tell the person on your right that you dont like chopping and he wont offer it.

as for the guy that went all in on you because you didnt want to chop... that guy has some balls with Q8. i doubt i would have called with ATo there but i would have been tempted.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:43 pm 
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I don't see a real point to this in NL games. The place I play has limit tables and this will often happen. The house takes a certain rake each hand. They take money for the rake and money for the bad beat jackpot. If you only have 2 players the house is going to take most if not all of the money right off the top depending on what limit you are playing. Thus it makes sense to just pretend the hand was never dealt, even if you have good cards. For no limit though, assuming rake is taken in a similar fashion, there is still a possibility of heavy action post flop. Chances are though if one person wants to chop, you might as well as they will not be likely to bet post flop and then the house will be the winner again.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:38 am 
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are you sure the house takes a rake each hand? all of the casinos i've played at, the pot needed to reach a certain $$ and a flop seen for the house to take a rake. Sure, they take a rake from the pot in the beginning, but are you sure, they dont give it back to the pot if the pot doesnt reach a certain value?

for example, in a $100NL table where blinds are $1/2, if everyone folds, SB limps in and BB checks, it's a $4 pot. they will likely take 50c from the pot and put it in the rake drop (but not drop the rake). and if it checks all the way down, i believe they take the 50c and give it back to the winner... so no rake is dropped.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:51 am 
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No rake is taken if the flop isn't seen, but if the flop is seen they take rake. At least where I play. I'm sure places policy on that vary though. Part of it where I play is likely that they have a 15k bad beat jackpot if aaa66 or better is beaten so I'm sure they want to get the money to cover that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:36 am 
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well, there should be two separate rakes in that case. one for the house and one for the bad beat jackpot.

all of the casinos i've played at, returned the regular rake if the pot is unraised and checked down (at the 1/2 blinds level) by only the blinds


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:05 am 
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Chopping the blinds is common in all the casinos I frequent. It is a normal, expected aspect of play that happens all the time. I have done the same thing as the guy with Q8os when someone has refused to chop with me.

At low limits (I'm assuming you were playing 1/2 or 2/4 NL), where you are not paying a timed session fee, there is ALWAYS a $2 rake taken upon seeing the flop. If both the SB and BB call/check, the total pot is 4-2=2 dollars. Frankly, its not worth playing for when the entire pot size is one BB.

So basically, its not worth it not to chop. If you love your hand so much that youre willing to play for 50% money, then you should've called his all-in.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:19 am 
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KrazyOneX wrote:
Chopping the blinds is common in all the casinos I frequent. It is a normal, expected aspect of play that happens all the time. I have done the same thing as the guy with Q8os when someone has refused to chop with me.

At low limits (I'm assuming you were playing 1/2 or 2/4 NL), where you are not paying a timed session fee, there is ALWAYS a $2 rake taken upon seeing the flop. If both the SB and BB call/check, the total pot is 4-2=2 dollars. Frankly, its not worth playing for when the entire pot size is one BB.

So basically, its not worth it not to chop. If you love your hand so much that youre willing to play for 50% money, then you should've called his all-in.


Hmm, I guess that makes sense. Oh well, learned something new, I suppose.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:52 pm 
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I received a few nasty looks and got in one verbal spat with someone in ACity while playing at the Borgota when I refused to chop.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:54 pm 
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KrazyOneX wrote:
At low limits (I'm assuming you were playing 1/2 or 2/4 NL), where you are not paying a timed session fee, there is ALWAYS a $2 rake taken upon seeing the flop.


Perhaps this ALWAYS happens where you've played but I can tell you for a fact that they don't rake the pot in STL, KC or Tunica unless the pot hits a certain amount.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:34 pm 
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hockeystl wrote:
Perhaps this ALWAYS happens where you've played but I can tell you for a fact that they don't rake the pot in STL, KC or Tunica unless the pot hits a certain amount.


Youre right, I should specify that I play 1/2 or 2/5 NL in the Niagra Falls/Syracuse area. The casinos that I play at that do this are:

Turningstone
Seneca
Fallsview
Casino Niagara.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:33 pm 
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It's good karma to chop. I recently did it with AJ for the karma value.


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