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 Post subject: My Good Beat Story, His bad beat ;-)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:45 am 
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2-5 NL at the Borgata.

I limp UTG with Ah-9h, 2 callers, someone makes it 15, 2 callers back to me, I call, other 2 call.

Flop Kh 2x 3h

I check, guy on my left bets 40, one caller on the button, I call.

Turn is Jh --- I got the NUTS!

I bet 60, guy on my left says "160" (sweet), button calls 160 cold (no ****?) I figure guy on my left must have a set, and the button must have a baby flush.

So I say "Im all in"!

Guy on my left asks me how much more..... I say 538 on top of the 160. He says..... I call (no ****?....sweet). Button thinks and says I have to call and he calls all in for $200 more.

So now there is a $2,000 pot and Ive got the nuts .....This is awesome, and I have never been in a pot this big, let alone with the NUTS.

So after everyone calls the guy on my left turns over his hand and says "OH SHIT!!" as he shows Qh Td!!!!

He called $800 on the turn with what turned out to be an open ended straight draw.

So I was happy, and the river didnt pair the board, so I took it down with the NUTFLUSH! God damn that's a good feeling! (button had a flush with 4-5h which Is about what I figured.)

I did feel bad for the guy who f***ed up as he was a nice guy, but what can you do, and he was up about 1600 before that hand


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:51 am 
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I guess he misread his hand and thought he had the ten of hearts? Otherwise that is a monumentally stupid call. Even then he was beat though.

Maybe they thought someone who bets $538 was trying to buy it, but man, I'd think really hard about what cards someone risking $538 at a $2-5 table would have. What was the max buy in?

Don't feel bad about taking his money, especially if he was ahead. Like Canada Bill Jones said "It's immoral to let a sucker keep his money."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 11:54 am 
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[quote="DuggleBogey"]

Maybe they thought someone who bets $538 was trying to buy it, but man, I'd think really hard about what cards someone risking $538 at a $2-5 table would have. What was the max buy in? [quote]

The amazing part was that while it was a big raise, it was not even the size of the pot which once I call the $100 raise is just over $700.

As for the possibility of buying it, it is VERY rare that somone tries to bluff out 2 other people. Once I am raised and someone calls half their stack (after a bet and a raise when a third heart falls) the chance that I am bluffing $535 into a $700 pot is close to zero, especially when I virtually know the button has a flush, and also has only $200 left with which to call.

He should have folded even if he had the Q high flush, but not everyone is that good. BTW, the min buy in was 100, max was 500.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:11 pm 
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Rollaj wrote:
DuggleBogey wrote:

He should have folded even if he had the Q high flush, but not everyone is that good. BTW, the min buy in was 100, max was 500.


Fold with the Q high flush with the K already on the table? I dunno about that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:55 pm 
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actyper wrote:
Fold with the Q high flush with the K already on the table? I dunno about that.


Actually the guy didn`t even have the flush. But assuming he had the flush, his Q high flush, his only chance is to catch someone bluffing. People play Ax suited, so it's very likely someone has the ace high flush. Playing a queen high flush on a board with the ace and jack already out is much more succesful because most people don`t play Kx suited, unless it`s KQ or KJ.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 4:19 pm 
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Dekar wrote:
actyper wrote:
Fold with the Q high flush with the K already on the table? I dunno about that.


Actually the guy didn`t even have the flush. But assuming he had the flush, his Q high flush, his only chance is to catch someone bluffing. People play Ax suited, so it's very likely someone has the ace high flush. Playing a queen high flush on a board with the ace and jack already out is much more succesful because most people don`t play Kx suited, unless it`s KQ or KJ.


But at the same time if he had a Queen high flush with the King already showing, the only hand he should be scared of is A-x of Hearts. You have the second best hand currently possible out of all the possible hands, there is very little chance I would lay this down.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:29 pm 
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breaux124 wrote:
Dekar wrote:
actyper wrote:
Fold with the Q high flush with the K already on the table? I dunno about that.


Actually the guy didn`t even have the flush. But assuming he had the flush, his Q high flush, his only chance is to catch someone bluffing. People play Ax suited, so it's very likely someone has the ace high flush. Playing a queen high flush on a board with the ace and jack already out is much more succesful because most people don`t play Kx suited, unless it`s KQ or KJ.


But at the same time if he had a Queen high flush with the King already showing, the only hand he should be scared of is A-x of Hearts. You have the second best hand currently possible out of all the possible hands, there is very little chance I would lay this down.


My thoughts exactly. Plus most good players would have raised after the flop, showing 2 suits to go along with the pocket Ax of the matching suit, and wouldn't of just checked.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:39 am 
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Quote:
My thoughts exactly. Plus most good players would have raised after the flop, showing 2 suits to go along with the pocket Ax of the matching suit, and wouldn't of just checked


A couple of things to consider.......

1) I was in first position, I couldnt raise...... only bet or check. When 6 people see the flop, and there is a king out there a bet is dangerous as someone may easily raise pot and I will then be forced to fold my nut draw.

2)A check raise on the flop is also very dangerous in NL as you reopen the betting to the original raiser, and perhaps even someone who smooth called and hoped to pop it on the turn with a flopped set or 2 pair.... I think a c/r on the flop would be really bad, unless I c/r all in...... but I dont like playing for luck, so I wouldnt chance 800 on the flop with just a draw.

3) It is true that MOST of the time you cant fold the second nut flush, but to play well you have to be able to read hands. What could I possibly have when
**I bet the turn when the flush card came
**got raised $100 when a flush card came
** saw a player who was not pot commited by any means call $160 cold
** I see all this and reraise $538
**????

If I am the other player, to call I must figure that since the K and J of hearts is out there, and I *think* I have Q-T of hearts that not only does he not have the suited ace of hearts....... but is trying to bluff out TWO players, one of whom is nearly all in, with nothing better than a 9 high flush!!

Would you all still really call a $500+ reraise with a Q high flush???

If so lets play :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:32 am 
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Rollaj wrote:
1) I was in first position, I couldnt raise...... only bet or check. When 6 people see the flop, and there is a king out there a bet is dangerous as someone may easily raise pot and I will then be forced to fold my nut draw.

I agree, I don't mind getting a free card if it comes to me.

Quote:
2)A check raise on the flop is also very dangerous in NL as you reopen the betting to the original raiser, and perhaps even someone who smooth called and hoped to pop it on the turn with a flopped set or 2 pair.... I think a c/r on the flop would be really bad, unless I c/r all in...... but I dont like playing for luck, so I wouldnt chance 800 on the flop with just a draw.

I agree again, I don't like to check raise on the flop unless I've got a monster hand, but even at that point I'd slow play it. I will check raise if I have a decent hand and there is a possible draw on the flop, this will help scare out anyone playing a draw hand.

Quote:
3) It is true that MOST of the time you cant fold the second nut flush, but to play well you have to be able to read hands. What could I possibly have when
**I bet the turn when the flush card came
**got raised $100 when a flush card came
** saw a player who was not pot commited by any means call $160 cold
** I see all this and reraise $538
**????
If I am the other player, to call I must figure that since the K and J of hearts is out there, and I *think* I have Q-T of hearts that not only does he not have the suited ace of hearts....... but is trying to bluff out TWO players, one of whom is nearly all in, with nothing better than a 9 high flush!!
Would you all still really call a $500+ reraise with a Q high flush???

If so lets play :D

If this is the setup, then DAMN right I'm calling. I've got the second high flush with a possible straight flush AND royal flush draw. I don't know many people that would lay this hand down. Part of poker is gambling, and here the gamble is definately worth it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:08 am 
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Quote:
If this is the setup, then DAMN right I'm calling. I've got the second high flush with a possible straight flush AND royal flush draw. I don't know many people that would lay this hand down. Part of poker is gambling, and here the gamble is definately worth it.


So even if you'd rerasoned all the above and conluded that I had the A high flush youd still call 538 into a $1250 pot with a one outter (a .0222) chance of winning?

I think the easiest factor for new player to not factor in enough is the action of the third player....... he called half his stack after a bet and a raise with a flush possible. He HAS to have a flush around 80% of the time. Plus all he has to call is $200 more for a $1250 pot. I CANT BE BLUFFING....... there is no side pot yet.


Quote:
Part of poker is gambling, it.

Poker can be gambling, or it can be a game of skill and analysis, once you get to the turn it is 90% skill

Quote:
and here the gamble is definately worth

I disagree


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:36 am 
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I would have folded that Q-high flush easily. Ax suited is a very likely hand to have. If someone dares a bluff like that (if he didn't have the Ace), then he deserves it this time, because he'll get caught soon enough, and Hard.

Folding the 2nd best hand when it is beaten is the hardest and one of the most valuable move in poker. Live it is usually easier to know where you are, but on the net, unless you have any reason to believe your opponent is a sucker/maniac/bluffer, then this is an easy lay down.


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