2/5 blind game.

Two relevant players

old guy: He’s a calling station. He’s only been playing ½ hour at the table, but has played more than 50% of his hands. He’s the type to bet with the nuts only, and call down with any moderate holding despite obvious signs that he is beaten. He may/may not lay down for overbets, but can easily be milked to call flop, turn, and river with top pair any kicker.

Young guy: He’s a very good player and makes his living playing poker, no doubt. He’s also playing ½ hour, but I’ve played with him before. He’s very aggressive, particularly on the flop to find out where he is at. But he is not stupid-aggressive, he knows when he is beat and can fold a hand. He likely views me as a tight solid player. He’ll limp with speculative hands if he thinks he can get in cheaply, but I mean a hand like 46s not a hand like Q5s.

Stacks:
Me 700
Young 700
Old 250

Onto the hand: I have K7o in the big blind, old guy limps UTG, 2 more limpers, young limps in middle postion 1 more limpers, sb completes and I check my option

Flop: ($35) AKK rainbow, sb checks, we elect to lead out $30, knowing there are several players here who will call with an ace, possibly a gutshot. Old guy calls quickly, folded to young guy who makes it $90, folded back to us. What is our action and our plan?

I think you're still fine here. No preflop action says you're probably playing against a weak ace, or maybe a weak king, in that case you just hope your king is best. You said yourself, young is aggressive to see where he is on the flop. Let him know, throw a reraise back at him, now the old guy is squeezed here and if he makes any move besides fold, he's your problem, not the young guy.

Get it heads up, see what Young guy does, reevaluate from there.

Cold calling this will tell the young guy what you have. 1 King. Thing is you want max value from the calling station. So you can either call, defining your hand for one opp, but stringing the calling station along, or raise to bloat the pot.

I think I would call and try to pot **** the calling station. Then lead the turn and try to stack the old guy.

I put the YG on AJ or AQ, AK would have raised pre-flop to get ride of the limpers, or small pair. Now you have bet $30, a raise $30 does not have folding equity, so raise of $90, tells me he has an Ace atlest or a hand like yours KT, Krag.

It is a big bet by the YG, so I would call here and through another 50 on the turn if a A does not show up.

JL, I think you are right that we need to find out where young guy stands and re-evaluate from there. I hope to get it heads up with old guy though, not young guy.

As to the old guy, he called quickly and didn’t recheck his hole cards. He has an ace here 90% of the time. He’s an inexperienced player out to have some fun and playing many hands and not raising. Preflop he calls for any of the following reasons:

1) I have an ace and nobody folds an ace
2) I have two big cards and nobody folds 2 big cards
3) I’m suited and nobody folds two suited cards
4) I have connecting cards and nobody folds connecting cards
5) I have a big hand and nobody folds a big hand
6) I have two cards and everyone else has called

On that flop, he called quickly, never looked back at his cards. If he called for reason #2 or #3, I’m certain he’d need to recheck his hole cards to see if he called with KT rather than QT or K3s rather than Q3s. If he called for reason #4 he’d fold, if reason #5 (rare occurrence) he probably would have taken more time to think about it with QQ or JJ and if he has the rare monster AA/AK he likely would have rechecked because he can’t believe he actually flopped a full house. #6 is out cause he was UTG.

The only hand there that calls quickly and doesn’t recheck his cards is #1. He wouldn’t need to recheck cause he knows he called because he had an ace, and an ace came, easy call for him. Maybe he'd recheck his kicker if it came AK6 to see if he had a six, but he doesn't need to recheck for the ace. Besides, his stack/pot ratio is small enough that I don’t worry about him beating me, he only started with 250 and any further bet/raise by me commits me at least 250 anyway. I’m only concerned about how to best extract his chips. Young guy is the concern, I want to be able to get away from the hand if I am behind to him. If I’m beating young guy, he’s not putting any more chips in the pot so I’m not concerned about trying to extract from him.

Old guy is not folding an ace here no matter what. He didn’t call with an ace just to fold it when it hit.




Ahiltz, I like this idea.

1) As much as I think old guy won’t fold an ace even for a reraise on the flop, I’m even more confident that he won’t fold for a lead-turn bet.

2) Young guy will fold his ace either way. But whereas he might reraise on the flop with KQ/KJ, he might not do that on the turn without filling up. So if I’m behind here to a better K from young guy, could I possibly see a showdown with him without putting in my whole stack? This would be tough though OOP against a tough opponent, but maybe if he has a certain image of me.

Let’s re-evaluate this call/lead option again after we finish the play of the hand.





View, you’re right that he clearly has at least an ace or a king. But his raise to $90 is not big, it is exactly the raise he’d make as either a feeler bet or with a hand he was ready to go to the felt with, that’s why it’s a good raise and his position on us makes it so dangerous.

As far as us calling and betting the turn, there would be $300 in the pot. We’d need to bet more than $50. $50 turn bet is just asking to be outplayed.

My thinking at the time of the hand:

Old guy has an ace. He called quickly, he didn’t check his hole cards. He didn’t check them cause he knew the reason he called preflop was cause he had an ace. If he had a king, he woulda checked his cards, because the reason he called preflop was cause he had 2 high cards, so he woulda needed to check to see if it was KT not QT. I don’t think he’ll let go of an ace here even for a reraise cause “nobody folds an ace”. I don’t think he minds losing the money with an ace here, but he certainly minds the possibility of being bluffed and doesn’t know enough to realize there is no chance he is being bluffed by both players here.

There is no question young guy has an ace or king. He’d limp any Ace-suited here but after a raise and call he’d probably just fold A7s or lower. He might have also limped offsuit AQ/AJ/AT here. As for Kings, I think only KQs/KJs/KTs/K9s/KQo and maybe KJo are possible. I don’t think he’d likely play k8s or lower (no straight possibility), but it’s possible. Young guy is not putting another $ in the pot here without a king, that I’m almost certain of.

I do not want to lose a $700 stack here with this hand and young guy has me covered. I was possibly a bit anxcious to know where I stood especially OOP.

Action: I raise to $200 total, with the intention of calling the odd reraise from old guy and most likely folding to a reraise by young guy. Old guy thinks for a short time and calls (leaving him $45). Young guy goes into the tank for quite a while. He asks to see my stack (which was covered by my hands). Finally, he calls the additional $110.

So, where are we now and what is our plan for the turn? What if the turn is a broadway card? What if it’s lower than a 7? Ace? Seven?

If it's an Ace, get out, obviously.

If it's a 7, I don't care if the guy creams his pants as a tell he has pocket aces, you're losing your stack to see them.

Lower than a seven. Well, I realize that negates your chance for a split (possibly) with a higher K, but you have to look back and say what would make you want to cry more? A Q/J/T, or a 4/3/2? If a higher card falls then you have to be thinking about boats just filling up. If a 4/3/2 etc drops you might have missed a shot to split, but at least he didnt fill up!

I still think you play this like you're the only one with a king. It's a scary board for sure, and the cold call by the young guy is a bit ridiculous. That would have me dying. If you're sure he has a King, you can be reasonably sure your beaten. Looking for a split can be super dangerous because you wont know what high card fills him up, and what high card just earned you half the pot.

I want to know the turn!

HEY. OTHER PEOPLE REPLY SO MURF CAN FEEL HE'S GOT ENOUGH RESPONSE TO TELL ME WHAT HAPPENED.

kthx.

Just like to give everyone some time Not as many responses to this one, too bad cause I think the flop and turn are very interesting decisions here. Maybe people will chime in later.

Turn: Queen (suit irrelevant)

What, why, plan?

I don't have time for a thoughtful response...but I hate going broke in an unraised pot. The old guy could have anything and I would not discount a KJ,K10 type hand from him. The cold call by the young player is even more scary with the action so far. If he thinks you are solid, he knows you wouldn't make that raise without a King, and he basically tells you that "I know what you have and I'm not scared", he doesn't care about the old guy winning the pot at showdown, he's playing heads up with you.

With the Turn Q, I think your a split pot at best with one of them, My guess is the young guy, but the old guy could have you beat just as easily.

Since we are out of position and the pot is swelling its an all in move or a check fold to the young players pot/AI bet he would be forced to make if you check to him. I lean towards checking, have the old guy bet his remaing $45 and if the young player just calls, go all in, if the young player reraises, im folding. The young guy by calling the old guys small raise wants to see a showdown just as cheap as you do, so the all in check raise has a better chance of winning the pot right there and showing down agaisnt the old guy only. I think by leading out you only get called by a better hand.

Just my .02

Ryan

wow. River never fails to amaze me.

Is that good or bad?

Well, that is an interesting turn. I will check her as river said. And folding is not an option. I am going broke with this hand or taking the lead.

Good